Paying this forward for Phoenix Hairpins (R.I.Pussy.):
Single sublime release of traditionalist (Bauhaus, Killing Joke) Italian post-punk...
Larm - 1983 Reh-Demo
High rip of a low dub of one of the most death-race-desperate performances from
the great-grandfathers of all noisy hardcore. ИГРАЙТЕ ГРОМКО
Chaotic Disorder, Havaistys, Konkurssi, Krahajy, Kylma Sota, Polttoitsemurha, Ristisaatto Pro-CDRS 2001-2010 (320)
A jollification of some of my fave releases on the singer of Conclude's CDR label, which neurotically specialized in newer Finnish (or Finnish-inspired) noisiest hardcore and rawest punk.
Favest of the faves: Ristisaatto ikuisesti!!!
Borderline - CDR Demo 2003 (FLAC)
Only release of noisy thrash that...borderlines...on crasher crust. A well observed floater in collector hot tubs of the time, the band is so completely forgotten now that even Discogs is amnesiac to their existence. Fave Track: Lost In Maze
Straight Ahead - Discography & Live 1986-1988
1987 Interview By Paul/Larm...
WHO ARE IN THE BAND?
Me (Tommy) on vocals, Rob on guitar, Craig on bass, and filling in on drums is Arman. Craig and I are 16, Rob and Arman are 18.
HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE YOUR MUSIC/SOUND?
Fast with crucial mosh NY style! Very generic at some points, like old minor threat sped up a lot, you have to hear it to judge.
WHAT'S MORE IMPORTANT TO YOU, THE MUSIC OR THE LYRICS?
The lyrics 'cause I write them, the lyrics because that is the main thing to be in a band, to express your views, trying to make a better tomorrow for future generations. We put a lot into the music too!
WHAT DO YOU SING ABOUT? AND WHO WRITES THE WORDS?
We sing about unity, peace, caring, loving, hoping for a better world, helping people in need, never forgetting to care. I write most of the lyrics. It's time to help others, unite to fight the enemy, our fucked up system which only supports the rich. People have to start helping other people to make things work. We're much stronger when we stick together to destroy: Sexism, Negativity, Fascism, Nazism, Racism, we are the youth, the future, it's up to us to make a better world!
DO YOU PRACTICE A LOT, IS IT EASY TO FIND A PRACTISE ROOM IN N.Y.?
We practice 1 or 2 times a week, sometimes 3 times. Yes it is easy to find a room here, we rehearse for $5 at Giant studios in N.Y.C.
TELL US SOMETHING ABOUT THE N.Y. SCENE?
New York is a good place, a strong united scene, not much fights I'm happy to say but sometimes stupid shit starts for no reason. BANDS: Numskulls, Youth of Today, Fit For Abuse, Rest In Pieces, Token Entry, Letch Patral, Cro Mags, Sheer Terror, Murphy's Law, Crippled Youth, there are many good N.Y. bands. A few good zines: Attitude, Guillotine, Tse-Tse Fly, Smash Apathy, Bullshit Monthly. Gigs every week at CBGB's, sometime even 3 gigs a week...very strong scene & good bands.
DID YOU EVER PLAY IN OTHER GROUPS?
No, well yes! I played in N.Y.C. MAYHEM for almost 2 years before we broke up, and a couple of joke bands before that.
WHO CAME UP WITH THE NAME OF THE BAND, AND DOES IT HAVE A SPECIAL MEANING?
I did and yes much meaning, it describes our music, attitude and the way we think and live. We're proud of what we do and who we are, we walk STRAIGHT AHEAD, "straight" to speak with fairness, truth and honesty, and "ahead" to try to succeed in our fight for unity, caring, and peace.
DO YOU HAVE A LOT OF GIGS AND HOW'S THE ATMOSPHERE AT YOUR GIGS? IS IT EASY TO GET A GIG?
We play 1 or 2 times a month, this summer we tour the U.S. we might go to Europe this summer too. The atmosphere is good, no fights, only 1 or 2 fights in all the time we played. It's kind of easy to get gigs, you just have to meet people in other big bands.
DO YOU HAVE ANY "FANS", A FANATIC STRAIGHT AHEAD FOLLOWING?
People come to see us, but i don't know about any fanatic following, maybe? who knows?
HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT POLITICS? ARE YOU A POLITICAL BAND? ANY PERSONAL VIEWS?
Concerned...we're not really a political band, although we know the U.S. system has to be changed to help everybody, not just the rich. Don't get me wrong I don't hate them, some of them worked hard for their money, it's just that they got so much and we got so little. Our system must be changed or improved but we the people must stand together to make a change.
ARE THERE ANY SQUATS IN N.Y.C., OR REAL PUNK/HC CLUBS (OWNED & RUN BY PUNX)?
Yeah! There's squats, also real punks. I really don't know of any clubs owned by punks, maybe run by punx but not owned by them.
WHAT ARE YOUR FAVOURITE N.Y. BANDS?
Wow! Many, to name a few it has to be: NUMSKULL, SHEER TERROR, WARZONE, YOUTH OF TODAY, REST IN PIECES, MENTAL ABUSE, CRO MAGS, and so on.
HOW DO YOU THINK ABOUT METAL MIXED UP WITH HARDCORE? SEEING HC BANDS GOING METAL?
If that's what they want to do then I guess it's fine. As long as they keep the heart, trust, spirit, and hardness, and don't forget the people who supported them in the beginning. Stay loyal!
WHAT'S YOUR VIEW ON "STRAIGHT EDGE"? IS THERE A HIGH DRUG-ALCOHOL ABUSE IN N.Y.?
I'm straight edge, the rest of the band doesn't take drugs or shit like that, they drink beer once in awhile. Plus, they have girlfriends and shit, that's fine if they really love them. Yes too many people get drunk and start fights, if they can't handle alcohol they shouldn't drink. Drugs, not that much just smoke, that stuff is stupid and a losing game, STAY STRAIGHT, stay pure and stay hard, especially when it controls you instead of you controlling it.
WHAT ARE YOUR MUSICAL INFLUENCES AND WHAT BANDS INFLUENCE YOU LYRICALLY?
I listen to a lot of south california bands like Doggy Style, Scared Straight, Unity, Uniform Choice...etc. I like good positive thinking bands.
WHAT ARE YOUR VIEWS ON NUCLEAR POWER, THE ARMS RACE?
We should bring it to an end! DISARM! Why should we pay for our government's ignorance and anger. We're people too, equal as they are, the first thing to do it to unite and stop this mad obsession with power.
DO YOU LIKE LIVING IN N.Y.C.?
Yes, very much but I wish I had a car or money to travel. I've been here too long, I need a vacation.
HOW ARE THE COPS IN YOUR CITY, DO THEY LEAVE THE PUNKS/SKINS ALONE OR DO YOU GET HASSLED?
The cops are pretty cool lately, but still, you give somebody a gun and a badge and they think they're better and stronger than you, a lot of them are very ignorant and don't care about helpin', just killing or beating up people. But there is good & bad to everything and everyone. I'm only one voice that will never stop expressing his views!
I HEARD THERE ARE MANY YOUTH GANGS IN N.Y.C. IS IT TRUE, IS THERE A LOT OF VIOLENCE ON THE STREETS, CLUBS, LIFE?
That was 2 or 3 years ago, not now, it's mellowed a lot. The scene is smaller, more united. Sure, there's fights, but nothing like there were back awhile ago. Besides, they're weaker and we're getting stronger, we'll take a stand for our scene.
HAVE YOU MADE ANY DEMO/TAPE/RECORD?
No, but we're recording 10 songs for a comp 7" in Feb. That should be out in late march or april with LARM, PILLSBURY HARDCORE, and ATTITUDE ADJUSTMENT. MIKE RUBENSTEIN is putting out the record, called END THE WARZONE. Then we record a 7" and we're looking for a label to press it up. We might put out an official live tape in march too.
ARE YOU OPTIMISTIC OR PESSIMISTIC ABOUT THE FUTURE OF HARDCORE?
We're getting stronger, the scene is more united and I see many improvements. Nothing dies in my heart, it just makes changes for the better.
DO YOU HAVE ANY ACTIVITIES BESIDE THE BAND?
I help fanzines out, but I'm not a worker or writer for one yet. I workout, practice ( drums), work sometimes, hangout with friends, write lyrics...stuff like that.
DO YOU HAVE JOBS/GO TO SCHOOL OR ARE YOU UNEMPLOYED? DO YOU WANNA WORK? AND IS IT EASY TO GET A JOB?
Bob works, Craig goes to school and I work sometimes at a moving company. It's hard to find a job and even harder finding a good job, but we manage.
ANY FUTURE PLANS?
Records, tours, and looking for a better world for you and me.
ANYTHING MORE TO SAY TO OUR READERS?
Stay pure, stay straight, stay true, stay hard. Keep the spirit and never lose the heart. Think right to unite, start to care for others. Take a stand for unity and wipe out all negative ignorance, watch out for a group of kids from washington D.C. calling themselves POSITIVE FORCE, they sound like they got cause, spirit, and heart. Take care of yourselves.
2013 Interview By Tony Rettman...
When did your interest in playing music start?
Tommy Carroll: I started working when I was 14 at the boathouse on Nineteenth Street and First Avenue and saved up my money and bought a drum set. I played with a few friends in the neighborhood and my friend introduced me to Gordon Ancis (guitarist of NYC Mayhem) and Tony Marck (first bass player for NYC Mayhem) They were taking lessons and were pretty decent musicians. Metal was our thing. Sabbath, Priest, Maiden and then, of course, Metallica.
How did you get into Hardcore?
We were aware of Circle Jerks, GBH and Discharge; the Metal bands liked. I went to CBGB’s and saw Adrenalin O.D. I liked the scene. There were so many restraints in Heavy Metal and these guys were jumping off the stage and dancing around. I wanted to be a part of it. I was a young kid and I was still searching for things. I wanted something more real; purer. After that show, we got more into Hardcore and replaced Tony with Craig Satari. I knew Craig through Danny Lilker (Nuclear Assault). Looking back now, it all went by so quick. There was a two-year window and then I was out of music. But I really fell in love with the scene. I ended up meeting a woman through the scene and having a child with her. It became more of a lifestyle after a while. I always thought I was an outcast, so I fit right in with all the other broken toys.
What do you remember from the early days of NYC Mayhem?
Back in the day with Mayhem, I used to make our demos by taking my sisters’ cassettes, erasing them and putting our shit on there to send out to all the Metal ‘zines. I was really into the tape trading shit. That was fuckin’ awesome. You had the Metallica demo with Dave Mustane on it and then Death from Florida. It was a great, great scene. You’d be on the phone with these guys and the long-distance bill was building up. I guess the internet is a good thing since it saves these new bands a lot of money on phone bills!
What bands do you feel best exemplifies NYHC?
Up until this day, Agnostic Front is NYHC as far as I’m concerned. When I see them playing in front of tens of thousands of people, I couldn’t be more happy for them. I used to look at my parents listening to all their 50’s shit and laugh at them. Now, I look at myself and all I listen to is the Bad Brains, Agnostic Front and the Cro-Mags. I came to realize that’s my era. That’s the stuff no one can take away from me. That music is connected to the best memories of my life and I hang on to them. I had the privilege of being Roger’s roommate for a couple months way back. When you come into something new, there are guys who are reluctant to befriend you. Roger and Jimmy are still here, so that’s the kind of guys they are. They welcome people in to keep the scene going. New blood, new bands.
What were some of the more important shows for you at CBGB’s?
The first time I saw Agnostic Front at CBGB’s was a big thing. The vibe was great. But even the small bands that played there made an impact on me like Malignant Tumor and The Neos. There was just so many good shows.
Wasn’t there supposed to be an NYC Mayhem seven-inch at some point?
NYC Mayhem recorded fourteen songs for a seven-inch that Dave from Mental Abuse was going to put out on his label, Urinal. He didn’t like the way it came out. I remember him telling me he thought it was going to be more Metal.
You played drums and sang in NYC Mayhem. Barring The Mentors, that’s a pretty unique thing for a punk band.
Yeah, someone who did both those things in Hardcore was hard to find. I had a lot of energy and I could play drums. I have a regret that I didn’t stick with singing and playing the drums because I was actually a pretty decent drummer. Some of that stuff you hear on the NYC Mayhem tapes, I was only playing drums for six to eight months. My ego took over and I wanted to be a singer. In all honesty, I didn’t think I was a good enough singer to sing on a record and carry a band into anything further than playing Hardcore at CBGB’s. Back then, I wouldn’t admit it. I think my talent fell into playing drums. It was my ego that got me to sing but also stopped me from playing music. NYC Mayhem jumped from being this super-fast thrash band to being a full-on Straight Edge band with Straight Ahead. I wanted to be accepted. We started shaving our heads and I admit to losing some of my identity. I was trying to emulate H.R. and John Joseph. I got more into satisfying the crowd and playing something that was the norm. When we did Mayhem, we didn’t give a fuck. We did whatever we wanted to do. Straight Ahead consciously followed the blueprint to be an NYHC band.
Why did the Straight Edge thing appeal to you at that time?
It was easy for me. I grew up with a lot of alcohol and drugs. I did them at a young age and got burnt out on drugs by the time I was fourteen years old. It was an easy choice for me. It was a better way of life.
What do you remember about being in Youth of Today?
Ray had been into Hardcore for way longer than anyone and he wanted to get a crowd, he was trying to find the pulse of what people wanted.
What do you remember about touring with them?
People embraced us. Our van broke down and we were starving and all that, but I guess that’s a typical story for every Hardcore band from that time. People in that scene let us come into our house and fed us. It was cool. Back then, I was very liberal, but then you get more conservative as you get older. You’re a bit more naïve when you’re younger because everything’s new and fresh and the friendship and unity held it together. Let’s face it, people are a lot stronger the more unified they are. That scene was a strength; it was the power of a movement. Everybody tried to grasp that and wanted to be a part of something. I’m a New York guy. I’m cynical. I’m a pessimist. As much as I try to be positive and optimistic, that’s the way I’ll always be. Maybe it was because of the way I was brought up and the things I’ve seen and experienced. But it was nice to take a break from that; even for a small period of time. It was a very enjoyable part of my life.
What can you tell me about the tracks Straight Ahead recorded for the End The War Zone compilations?
Those End the War Zone tracks were really makeshift. I played drums and sang on them and we threw it together really quick. I don’t even think it was mixed. Matter of fact, I don’t even think it was on a reel. I think I sent him a cassette tape.
And how about the recording of the Breakaway twelve-inch?
Chuck Valle (Ludichrist, Murphy’s Law) started getting into the other side of music and started working at Chung King Studios. I was a good friend of his and he was a fan of Straight Ahead. He wanted to start using the studio to record. We had to come in there at three o’clock in the morning to record. We had no intentions of doing anything with it but seeing how it would come out. It was a twenty-four track board and we had Chuck producing. Duane Rossignol (owner of Some Records record store) approached me about putting in on vinyl. Straight Ahead didn’t last too much longer after that. We were already broken up by the time it was pressed.
What are your memories of Duane Rossignol?
Duane was a good man. I know at one point, he called me down to the store and gave me some money from the profits of the record, which I didn’t really expect. The money wasn’t something I was really interested in. Even today, I’m not someone who cares about money. I probably should! But I don’t! At that point, I wanted to be famous, but on my terms. I didn’t want to be a sellout. I guess I was just too much of a Hardcore communist. But Duane was very knowledgeable about music. He was a big blues guy. At some point, people found out Duane and his politics, made it public and that brought about the store closing. Duane seemed real out there sometimes, but his love for Hardcore was incredible. He was a good man and treated me right. I think everything he did was for the love of the music and nothing else.
Around the same time, Some Records was in business and pushing DIY ideals, Chris Williamson was putting on his mega-shows at The Ritz. What did you think of those shows?
I was never a fan of Chris Williamson. I thought he was a money-hungry cheeseball, but I did enjoy the shows he put on. I thought the Cro-Mags hooking up with Chris Williamson and recording The Age Of Quarrel did them a disservice. I thought the album was produced horribly. They could have been bigger. They got short-changed I think. I mean, Agnostic Front made Victim in Pain for nothing and that record is still a monster. That record was proof that it wasn’t the quality of the sound, it’s what you capture in the recording and they captured something really special with that record.
There’s an infamous story of you harassing or attacking Kirk Hammett of Metallica at a CBGB’s matinee when he jumped up to play with the Crumbsuckers.
I don’t know, when Kirk came in with his big bouncers, it bothered me. I was there to see a Hardcore show, so I grabbed the mic and said ‘Get this fuckin’ rock star out of here!’ Maybe I was wrong about it, but I was a fifteen-year-old kid at the time. I honestly didn’t think he heard it! But then I saw him make a face at me. He took his guitar and jammed me in the chest with it and then made a motion like he was going to spit on me. I don’t know if he actually spits, but then I spit on him. And then he definitely spits back! Then his two big bouncers grabbed me and Billy Milano said something on the mic. Then one of the guys from the Crumbsuckers said something like ‘It looks like you bit off more than you could chew’. I’m a fifteen-year-old kid, I’m not going to take on two six-foot bouncers. I don’t care how tough I thought I was. Everybody was pissed off at me, but fuck this guy! If he ain’t a rock star, then why is he affected by what I said in the first place? I don’t want to rehash things. Like everything else in Hardcore, it’s made out to be more than it was. There’s no question Metallica is a great band.
Why did Straight Ahead break up?
Rob Echeverria is an excellent guitar player and started getting bored with it. I don’t blame him. We were purposely playing three-chord songs because it had to be a certain way. Don’t get me wrong, Straight Ahead was a good band, but we short-changed ourselves musically. We dumbed it down so to speak. I can’t speak for all the other guys, but that’s how it felt to me. I did something to be accepted. I definitely followed the format to be accepted into the Hardcore scene and by the time I was 17, I was done. I’m just being honest. After we broke up, we got back together for a little bit. When Craig was still playing with Youth of Today, Rob and I said to him, ‘Quit and come back to Straight Ahead’, so he did. But we really didn’t have enough steam to keep going. I’m just so glad to have had a part in it. It’s like CBGB’s, everybody puts their stickers up on the wall, and that’s what we did. We put our sticker up on the wall just like everybody else.
After Straight Ahead, you sang briefly in the band Irate. What do you remember about that?
Sergio Vega (Collapse, Quicksand, Deftones) was a real good kid who had something going on. He brought me along to sing in the band, but I was really done by then and went through the motions. I was washed up at twenty!
In the present day, NYHC is something celebrated worldwide. From your perspective, why is that?
Back then, I thought NYHC was the only thing on earth. Over the years, people have looked in, idolized others and I guess I can see why. It made history, it made a wave. To me, it was just about being young, being from New York and our personalities and being what we were as people. I thought L.A. was soft and I think they still are. I was never a big fan of the West Coast and I never will be. New York IS Hardcore, period! Why is NYHC great? Because New York’s great!
Warstate - "Endless Confusion" CD 2006 (320)
99% discography of noisy Japanese disgrind that went stadium
(but still tonally grinding) chargebeat. EXTERMINATES at either tempo!
The Blackshirt Orchestra - "Ode To The Young Men" Tape 1986 (320)
The Grey Wolves in disguise, doing pure-industrial and dark psychedelic
electronics in a more "melancholy" and semi-structured form...
(Greyer Wolves: https://selfishfew.blogspot.com/2017/01/the-grey-wolves-legion-of-hell-cassette.html
&
The Ghost Orchid: An Introduction To EVP CD 1999 & The Sounds of American Doomsday Cults LP 1984
"This CD is the first ever fully comprehensive (and digitally remastered) investigation into the paranormal phenomenon of EVP (Electronic Voice Phenomena), an unexplained mystery related to ufology, life after death and poltergeist activity. The listener is guided through a collection of strange and mysterious voices that have appeared without explanation onto the tapes of EVP researchers. The audio has been copied from cassette tapes, some of which were recorded over 35 years ago, and so may be of an inferior quality compared to standard compact disc releases. The tracks are divided into several sections: Polyglot Voices (recordings using unusual sentence structures, two or more languages, and/or shifting pitch of voice), PSB Interrupt (recordings that interrupt the Public Service Broadcasts, for example Aircraft bandwidt), Singing Voices (using the same structure as Polyglot Voices except communications are sung), Instant Response Voices (recordings of one or more individuals establishing contact with EVP voices), Alien Voices (recordings of EVP that seem to indicate possible extraterrestrial origin), New Research (a selection of more recent EVP recordings used by researchers, and Archive (a complete copy of the 7" vinyl recording which appeared with the book 'Breakthrough' by Dr. Konstantine Raudive)."
Inside The Church Universal and Triumphant: What happened when doomsday didn’t come and the science behind cults - by Tera Dittbrenner 3-10-15
It was supposed to be the end of the world. TV reporters from everywhere between Israel and Japan had gathered outside the compound. Sociologists assembled to assess the situation. And several stories below them, hundreds of people huddled – waiting in a bunker for a nuclear war that would never come. One of the people in that bunker was Erin Prophet, the daughter of Elizabeth Clare Prophet, leader of the Church Universal and Triumphant. CUT had moved their headquarters to Paradise Valley, Montana, nine years earlier.
Since then, the organization had become a media fixture; acquiring illegal weapons under fake names and having leaky underground fuel tanks will do that. But CUT’s members weren’t just making an overly paranoid security system; they were preparing for the end of the world, which Elizabeth had predicted would come on March 14, 1990. Erin Prophet has since left CUT, a religious group that has earned comparisons to Jonestown and Waco. Her memoir, Prophet’s Daughter, details her time with the group, and her life growing up in a doomsday cult.
“A lot of people in the church were offended and upset about my book,” Prophet said. “I was hoping they would use my book to reform...the church was really anti-abortion, and homosexuality was seen as a bad thing. You could come to services, but you couldn’t actually join unless you gave up being gay...that was an issue for me, I couldn’t be part of a group who had these extreme ideas about sexuality.”
Prophet describes CUT’s beliefs system as a blend of Eastern and Western religions. The belief combined concepts from Christianity, Buddhism, and Hinduism and attracted many followers in the ‘70s.
“It had a specific slant, which came out of theosophy, which was a 19th century movement that tried to basically say that all religions were one. So if you asked someone in the church what it was about, they would say that it’s the idea that you can become God.”
Prophet said the group displayed a penchant for doomsday prophecy long before they arrived in Montana.
“The Church always had a little bit of an apocalyptic identity, that the efforts of the Church were believed to be maintaining an equilibrium for the entire planet. So we actually thought our prayers were keeping the world from falling apart.”
It was this belief that caused a media frenzy, and put law enforcement on edge. The influence that Erin’s mother had over the group was staggering. Members prepared wholeheartedly for what they believed was the end. And Erin’s attempts to reassess the leadership model were thwarted time and again.
“I mean, could my mom just have said anything at all, like, ‘today we’re all going to dress like Easter Bunnies’ or, ‘tomorrow we’re going to put on pink elephant heads’, and everyone would have just said, ‘Okay!’? But it would have to somehow make sense within the context of her previous work and readings within the group.”
Questioning her mother’s leadership and way of life eventually led Prophet to the decision to leave the group, at first for a set period of time, and then permanently.
“I was always somewhat skeptical, I always just let my mind run on two tracks; on one track I was going along with everything that was happening, and on the other track I was thinking, ‘Why are we doing this, why would God let us do this if it weren’t going to turn out okay?’”
Once away from the compound Prophet came to realize just how different life was outside of CUT.
“I felt that there was no future for me in the church...I had to reassess what religion was, what spirituality was. I stopped doing meditation or prayer, but I found I enjoyed having a spiritual practice. For awhile I just wanted to be like other people, drink and go to bars and listen to music, doing things I had been told were nonproductive.”
Erin eventually returned to CUT’s headquarters to find her mother in deteriorating health; Elizabeth eventually died from Alzheimer’s. Once Elizabeth was no longer in power, and the doomsday predictions proved to be false, life in the compound changed. “People started demanding more autonomy within the group…Once my mother's health began to decline, it became about preparing for the future, the succession. The infrastructure fell apart because the more conservative members of the leadership really didn’t want to go to a more open decision-making model. They wanted to keep things the way they had been.”
Today, Paradise Valley is still occupied by members of CUT, but their numbers have dwindled. Prophet says that although she still keeps in touch with people in the compound, many were offended by her book, and things are tense. Erin spends her time writing and speaking at conferences.
Back in 1990 on the day the world didn’t end, while Erin and her family huddled together in one of CUT’s many underground bunkers, sociologist Robert Balch was standing above ground with other researchers and members of the media. He had been called in to analyze CUT with the hope that violence wouldn’t break out when the world didn’t end. Mercifully the group took the news pretty well. Balch, a Ph.D. in sociology and professor at the University of Montana, has studied the Church Universal and Triumphant, and the science of cults at large. I talked to Balch about doomsday cults, the people who lead them and why anybody would join one.
Montana Report: Why would someone join a cult?
Robert Balch: People joined Church Universal for the same reason they join a lot of other churches, which is, they like the people, something clicks about what the people believe. There’s nothing particularly weird about it, as far as the process goes of getting into it. CUT had a lot of church-like characteristics. When sociologists use the term “cult”, they most often they mean that it’s a religion whose beliefs are outside the mainstream, they’re not part of a Judeo-Christian tradition. So people look at them as being very weird. They like the people…it’s a gradual process of conversion. These people were spiritual-seekers…who were disillusioned with mainstream religion. CUT really grew big in the 1970s, because it started to pick up all these people who were refugees from the hippie counterculture and the anti-war movement of the 60s, who were already disillusioned with mainstream society.
When people joined CUT…they way it was structured…it was like being in a church. But as you move closer to the center [of the leadership], there’s where it becomes more cult-like in the stereotypical terms. If you went on staff…that was sort of like a monastic existence, where there were lots and lots of rules, lots of restrictions…all sorts of stuff that just regulated behavior. But that was just for staff members. When they were getting ready to move to Montana, they were trying to prepare people in the state that this weird group from Southern California was coming, I listened to some of the stuff that they were talking about, and I thought, “Holy shit, this is pretty weird.” But for people in that tradition, not weird at all. People who had reached a turning point in their lives…who were thinking, ‘Okay, what do I do next?’
MP: Why do people stay?
RB: We’ve got world-rejecting and world-affirming groups, and then in the middle you have groups like CUT, they’re called world-accommodating. So they don’t really want to be fully part of the world, but they’re also not fully rejecting it. This group is difficult to classify, because it depends on where you are in the organization. When you’re on the outer rings, it’s just like belonging to a church; it’s only a partial commitment. But the more involved you get, the more it tends to consume your life, and you end up separating yourself from the world. When you move to Montana, it suddenly becomes a big commitment.
MP: Are there any personality traits that would make someone better at leading a cult than others?
RB: Generally speaking…people who have done studies of charismatic leaders, trying to look for common personality characteristics, number one, it’s really difficult, because it’s rare that you’re gonna find one of these people who’s gonna sit down and go through a psychological evaluation. So you’re always trying to evaluate behavior at a distance. And so often with charismatic leaders, the only time when you get contact with those people are in specially orchestrated situations, so the leader is always giving a public performance, so you don’t really have access to backstage. A common characteristic is narcissism…but the issue with that is, are you narcissistic and therefore become a charismatic leader, or do you become a charismatic leader and have all these people slavishly bowing at your feet, and then you become narcissistic as a result of that? The charismatic leaders that I’ve had real contact with are very smart – not necessarily well educated smart – but intuitively smart, just naturally intelligent people; really good social skills, able to read people really well. You got to have a powerful personality…and followers who will believe what you say. People willingly submit to charismatic leaders. Every one that I’ve met can just talk forever…answer any question, and if they can’t answer, you still feel like you got something out of that.
MP: How do cults usually start?
RB: It varies. In this case, with CUT, Elizabeth Clare Prophet only started the name, Church Universal and Triumphant. Previously, it had been run by her husband Mark Prophet as The Summit Lighthouse. Elizabeth became the charismatic leader through a process of succession, because her husband, Mark, basically groomed her to take over. There’s all sorts of different ways these groups begin. One way is, tonight I go home and drop six hits of acid, and I have a revelation from God, and it changes my life, and I go out and I try to recruit people to follow me. That’s very common…people who believe they’ve been chosen for a special mission by God. I don’t know if that’s what happened to Mark Prophet; the details of his early history are kinda vague. Another way is that a fairly ordinary group that may not be religious at all will evolve into a religious cult…it evolves from a little tiny spiritually-oriented commune into this full-blown religion. A lot of groups get started the way Scientology did, where they’re basically a business. ‘I’ve had some spiritual insight, and if you pay me a certain amount of money, I’ll share my wisdom with you.’ There’s a lot of channeling groups that get started like this; an entity is speaking through them, and before long they’re charging money for it, and an inner circle develops, and then you’ve got a cult.
MP: How do some cults escalate so quickly, without anyone seeming to realize it (relocation, doomsday prophecies, mass suicide)?
RB: A lot of things can push people in that direction. One thing that commonly happens is outside opposition. Usually when there’s violence or weirdness in some cult group, people immediately look to the group for the explanation, when often the explanation is outside the group. In response to this (doomsday) prediction, they’re thinking, ‘Okay, if we’re going to be underground, and civilization is collapsing, people are going to know that we’ve got stuff and they don’t, so we’re going to have to protect our stuff.’ So they start buying weapons, and made the mistake of buying illegal weapons. Then the government finds out, and then you get that escalation and tension. But you could see how something could happen pretty easily in that situation. Law enforcement begins to investigate. Then the group becomes increasingly paranoid and buys more guns. Then law enforcement thinks, “we’ve got real trouble on our hands”, so they escalate their activities, and it goes on like this until there’s a confrontation. Also, threats to the leader’s authority…if they perceive that their authority is being threatened, what they’ll do is close ranks and purge the ranks, making increasing demands for commitment on the part of the followers…by responding in that way, all of a sudden the group has gone to this extremely authoritarian, very small, closed, controlling little community where the leaders now have much more control than they had before.
Eastern Europe VS South America: U.B.R. Live '83, Herpes Distress Comp Trax '83, Leukemia "Hardcore From Hungary" Demo 1987, Stres Državnega Aparata 3-way Tape Trax '83, Ratos De Porao 1981 Demo, Ocho Bolas "...Al Servicio" 1989 Demo, Guerilla Urbana Split Tape Trax 1986 (320 With Some Scans)
Peep shith💩les, catch enchantment...
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