Interview with guitarist Gary by Sean 2003...
Wotz poppin' Gary? First off, though it may embarrass you somewhat, I'd very much like to say that it is an extreme honor to be given the opportunity to conduct this interview with you. Why dont we start by introducing the readers to who you are, age, and some of the bands/styles of hardcore you've been involved in both prior to Death Sentence's formation and after it's demise. You seem to have an affinity for Anal Cunt and C.S.S.O. now!
Well, my name is Gary James McGillivray, I'm 40 going on 12, and I've been into what I'd like to call extreme styles of expression for the past 25 years. I left Death Sentence sometime in 1986 and reformed for a really bad tour of Adelaide in 1988 which was a mistake. The first band I attempted to play in was Zyklon B (a bit of un-PC name maybe, but it was 1980), then a Stooges cover band called The Hogheads, then the Bader Mienhoff with Scott before joining Death Sentence. Sorry to disappoint but I'm not totally into grind, gorecore or whatever as some of it I've heard really lack a bit of guts and it's really methodical. But bands I have heard that I do like are CSSO, Brodequin (probably metal really), Warsore (from Australia) and Basket Of Death (who scare the shit out of me). I liked A.C. when they came out because they really went over board and took the piss.
Death Sentence played ultrafast hardcore that gave your peers (Larm and Siege) a bloodsoaked run for their money. Playing at such brutal speeds, while not entirely uncommon around the globe, was still a bit of a novelty in the early 80s. Why the decision to play ultracore, and did you guys realize how fast you were playing at the time? Did you just consider yourselves a standard hardcore unit ala D.R.I.? Who was in the original lineup of D.S.?
The original line up was Peter - vocals, Con - bass, Matt -guitar, and Izzy (I think that was his name) - drums. Matt and Izzy were in a band called Permanent Damage (kinda meat n' potatoes hardcore). Matt and Izzy didn't have the time to do both. Peter had heard of Scott and I trying to get something together (though we'd never really met) and decided to give it a try out. Scott and I were just into playing really fast. With Matt and Izzy it wasn't very fast. When Peter and Con showed us the riffs I remember Scott and I just saying "yeah that sounds great, lets just speed it up by a factor of 10". So I guess we weren't that conscious of any influences per se just playing what we wanted a band to sound like. Our first gig was with I Spit On Your Gravy. We were on first. Because Scott and I were outsiders we hardly knew anyone and some of the more fashion conscious punters said to Peter we didn't look very "punk" (!?!...I've never been into the fashion thing although I've had tattoos since I was 15). So anyway, there was all these punk rock type I Spit On Your Gravy crowd watching us setup. We had five songs: Balance Of The Nation, Air That We Breathe, Christian Fanantics, Moral Majority and Death Sentence. The set went for 3 minutes, I Spit In Your Gravy went for 2 hours. The first song was Balance Of The Nation and Peter vomited up baked beans right at the end. No one said anything. There was just stunned silence. Then we went into the second song and the whole place just erupted!!! So we did our set again and by the end the place was just about trashed. We did the set again after I Spit In Your Gravy with even more chaos. After that we built up a following.
Honestly, hardcore was a real bitch to track down in the early 80s, yet members of D.S. seemed to always be on top of the most cult and extreme records from around the globe. How the fuck didja score (especially so quickly) crazy shit such as Headcleaners EPs especially in an often ignored (by the punk community) country as Australia? And speaking of lovin' hardcore, why the decision to not include (the most amazing cover I have ever heard of) Negative Approach's "Nothing" and SSD's "Glue" on the "Ryan" EP?
Honestly, hardcore was a real bitch to track down in the early 80s, yet members of D.S. seemed to always be on top of the most cult and extreme records from around the globe. How the fuck didja score (especially so quickly) crazy shit such as Headcleaners EPs especially in an often ignored (by the punk community) country as Australia? And speaking of lovin' hardcore, why the decision to not include (the most amazing cover I have ever heard of) Negative Approach's "Nothing" and SSD's "Glue" on the "Ryan" EP?
During the late 70's and early 80's I was heavily into buying punk records. Some of my favourite bands were (and still are) The Saints and The Leftovers. I've got a live Saints EP from 1977 which is brutal as fucking anything. Did you know that Black Flag used to do "Nights In Venice" an awesome Saints song? The Leftovers have an EP called Cigarettes Et Alcohol from 77/78. Two songs Only Panic and No Complaints are total thrash. (I think Peter saw them a few times, he's from Brisbane). Apparently the fans from these two bands used to have pitched battles. I think they call some of this stuff Killed By Death. I also liked early Damned, Dils, Maus Maus, Negative Trend, etc, etc from this period. In the early 80's I moved to Melbourne (I was born on a farm in a place called Wannambool). I really didn't know anyone. There were few punk gigs except by maybe Corporate Body and The Sick Things (awesome band, Mick Turner from indie hand Dirty Three used to play guitar for them). Anyhow, there was a record store called Missing Link who got some of the classic records in such as the Discharge singles and Black Flag Jealous Again', etc. One day I picked a magazine for 10 cents called Discords which had the Void (top 5 all time fave bands) Faith Split, SOA EP and Minor Threat 1st EP. It cost me $13.00 in total to send for them. This was around 1982, this stuff blew me away. Anyhow, Maximum Rock 'n Roll started coming out which had all these reviews of bands etc in it. I was working shift work 13 day fortnights, etc and making good money. On night shift all I'd do was sit down and write to all these band labels and began ordering records as soon as they came out. I also started trading with a guy called Tos from Holland who played guitar in Agent Orange and Cory Rusk from The Necros in the US. So basically I was able to get nearly every thing I wanted in exchange for obscure Australian stuff. Headcleaners, Neos, Shit Lickers, Mob 47, Terveet Kadet, The Eu's, Cheetah Chrome Motherfuckers, Pandemonium, Indigesti, Raw Power, etc, etc. I didn't know Peter at the time but he was basically doing the same thing. I guess we decided not to do any covers for the Ryan EP because we may have been a bit embarrassed as to how they would come out. Scott and I joined the band in early November 1984, our first gig was on the fith of December and the EP was recorded in January. So it happened all very quickly.
Have you heard of Seven Minutes Of Nausea? You do know they formed (in '85) solely from being inspired by seeing D.S. live right? (They actually played real proper ultracore at first and were seriously damn good at it!). How were crowd reactions to D.S.? It seems from listening to the "Waldo" promo that the crowd was really into you guys! That was your very first show correct? Being Australia's fastest band (and I say that with truthful recognition!) how did the other Aussie bands of the day take to you?
I've heard some of their stuff, although it was years ago. They used to do ultra fast 10 second songs and stuff - is that right? I didn't know they formed after seeing us live. The crowd reactions were great, especially with the first proper lineup! Although some people said that our songs should've been longer to give them more time to get into it! The Waldo tape would not have been our first show. A lot of bands did not really like us at the time. I could put this down to three reasons: 1: Jealousy, especially after the rave reviews we used to get. I rememebr the original bass player of Vicious Circle calling us un-musical in a Maximum Rock n' Roll interview once. Although I take it as a compliment. 2: Peter had a reputation for being quite violent (I know he'll probably read this interview but I know he won't mind). But in retrospect he never beat up on anyone who didn't deserve it. 3: The association with drugs. (for a while there we were referred to as "Drug Sentence").
Speaking with other Aussie bands and individuals it seems to are that you are a people of above-average intelligence and wit. I know that statement sounds like a huge ass-kissing fest, but it's reality pal! Have you noticed this trend yourself, and does it have something to do with a possibly more advanced educationtsocial system? This isn't the core question though, wot I'm really getting at is that why is your nation so well educated/worldy yet balanced with an attitude of TOTAL FUCKING NIHILISM!!! No shit, your people (in the various scenes at least) are serious fucking misanthropes! This may seem humorous to you, but to a foreigner it is a certainly lucid detail!
Great question, I've got a degree in political science and a masters degree in environmental studies ("Environmental Politics") which the state paid for. I could talk politics for ever and ever. But more to the point the state paid for my university education when I think in the USA everything is down to the market, I.E,: you have to pay for it yourself. While I'm not sure whether we are more educated than anyone else, Australia certainly looks pretty lucking stupid at the moment. If you do think there is a dose of nihilism it would come from the geographic isolation. This is especially so with bands like the Saints and the Leftovers in the 70's because they had no contemporaries in sound. "I'm Stranded" by the Saints came out in June 1976, the first Independent punk record, 5 months before The Damned! The channels of communication then were very limited. With the advent of the internet information is at your fingertips so it's not too hard to be influenced by different sounds. Twenty years ago you had to be dedicated and persevere if you wanted to find something worthwhile. Um, I guess I didn't answer your question, maybe we're misanthropes because we're from convict stock.
Why was the band so fixated on Ronald Joseph Ryan (the last man hanged in Australia), a man who had been dead nearly 20 years when D.S. formed? I did a few internet searches on him and managed to find an Aussie anti death penalty site citing Ryan's story and eventual demise. His tale honestly moved me, and I am curious if you lot were maybe paying tribute to his name with the EP? Was there a growing pro-death movement in Australia at the time the band formed, hence the "Ryan...Thanks for The Support" title? Ryan was wrongfully hanged for being a supposed cop-killer, right?
I really do not know the fixation about Ronald Ryan. It is a question you would have to ask Peter. I can't quite recall if there was a growing capital punishment movement in the mid 80's but nowadays it is a completely dead issue (no pun intended), it's highly unlikely it would ever be reintroduced. The sentence was carried out for political expediency for the current Victorian Premier (Henry Bolte) to be re-elected. Ryan supposedly shot a prison guard in a failed escape attempt. It has since been proved that he couldn't have done it. I don't believe in the death penalty because I think all criminals especially ones who commit heinous crimes so they can be made to have it on their conscience for the rest of their lives. Mind you if someone did something to my family, especially my young son, I would want to extract vengeance as I see appropriate.
Why the name "Death Sentence"? Were you aware that there were already British and Canadian D.S.'s as well? Did people ever confuse all the D.S.'s? Obviously you were the BEST of the bunch!
Peter came up with the name Death Sentence which I believe would have been connected to the Ryan fixation. It is a pretty standard "punk" name so when I joined I wasn't surprised that others existed. I don't think anyone ever confused us except maybe in British and US fanzines (maybe).
Did the band ever climb into different kangaroo's pouches and play demolition derby with the 'roos?
Never had any Kangaroo Derbies, although Peter was tripping once and broke into a factory and went for a joyride on a forklift and demolished the insides.
The band certainly had a firm grasp on living the "chaotic life", I understand that all of you had/have a STRONG affinity for alcohol and that it got all of you in trouble on occasion. Amongst the stories are crashed tour buses, jail time, and lawsuits. How did all this hard living effect the band? Did it drive a stake between you all or bring you closer together? When I used to drink I always had a fucking blast getting loaded and talking about hardcore! How did Peter reconcile drinking in his personal life and an anti-alcohol song on the 12" entitled "Alcohol"? There's a soundbyte on the 12" that sounds as if Peter was going apeshit at a show cuz he was so tossed and everybody was trying to get all involved to kick the fuck back.
Yep...drugs and drink drove the band so to speak. I used to smoke a little, pills, whiz, etc but mainly drank. My only vice now is alcohol and I'm still in love with it! I think in the end our indulgences drove us apart. There were a lot of fights with the Paul, Davo, Peter and myself line-up (don't know about the other line ups). I think the most out of it time was when Paul was living with a bunch of alcoholics above a bottle shop in Queensberry St. Carlton. No one had much money, so any acohol was a godsend (it was torture having a King Solemons hoard of alcohol underneath, we always debated as to whether to try and break in, but it would be so obvious who did it). One night a miracle happened. It was at the start of winter and one Sunday night a truck overturned out the front doing deliveries. Half a load of fruity elixir wine (by the cask) was wrecked because of the damage to the packaging, but it was still drinkable. Rather than have it removed we convinced the owners to dump it in the courtyard/ garage and we'd take care of it (which we did). So if you can imagine it, here was this foot high mountain of fruity elixir to be drunk The place became one long winter party house (and vomit pit). I'm not sure how Peter reconciled the "Alcohol' song and his personal life. I think it was just an ackowledgement of his own personal demons. The person on the front who is losing it is not Peter, it is a now deceased guy called Borgie.
Yep...drugs and drink drove the band so to speak. I used to smoke a little, pills, whiz, etc but mainly drank. My only vice now is alcohol and I'm still in love with it! I think in the end our indulgences drove us apart. There were a lot of fights with the Paul, Davo, Peter and myself line-up (don't know about the other line ups). I think the most out of it time was when Paul was living with a bunch of alcoholics above a bottle shop in Queensberry St. Carlton. No one had much money, so any acohol was a godsend (it was torture having a King Solemons hoard of alcohol underneath, we always debated as to whether to try and break in, but it would be so obvious who did it). One night a miracle happened. It was at the start of winter and one Sunday night a truck overturned out the front doing deliveries. Half a load of fruity elixir wine (by the cask) was wrecked because of the damage to the packaging, but it was still drinkable. Rather than have it removed we convinced the owners to dump it in the courtyard/ garage and we'd take care of it (which we did). So if you can imagine it, here was this foot high mountain of fruity elixir to be drunk The place became one long winter party house (and vomit pit). I'm not sure how Peter reconciled the "Alcohol' song and his personal life. I think it was just an ackowledgement of his own personal demons. The person on the front who is losing it is not Peter, it is a now deceased guy called Borgie.
Why weren't you asked to join the 3rd lineup? When I discovered that you were no longer involved with the band by the time of the recording of the unreleased "51st State Of Amercia" MLP I was really shocked! The band was rocking harder and heavier than ever and back to form, and from hearing those trax I could have swore it was still you pulling duty on guitar! What were your views of the band with the 3rd lineup and was your split amicable?
The third offical line up was Jackie, Peter, Simon, Paul and John (I think). After the "Pain..." recording things were really beginning to strain. Opinion started to diverge and I got asked to join S.T.P. which were guys I hung around with more than the D.S. crew anyway. I joined them and suggested Peter start looking for another line up. Davo moved to Queensland. The split was amicable. I think Peter and I have always had an unstated respect for each other. The 3rd line up was much better than the "Pain..." line up as they were really getting a great sound together. I remember seeing them play with DRI, they nearly blew em' away.
Why was the 12" so decidely more "artsy" and rockin' than the previous straight-forward ultracore attacks? I'm not saying the 12" sucks, but the change was an abrupt one. I'm completely infatuated with the trax "Anti Apartheid" and "Sweet Thing of Innocence". How did the band as a whole feel exploring the 12"s many nods to lost love? Why the title "If Pain Mends My Mind?"
With the 12 incher we really tried to do something different, which didn't quite work. I think if I could digitally re-mix it (as I said before) it would sound like a completely different record. Initially, I thought the "lost love" thing should have shelved, but with Peter singing it he kind of infected it with bitter irony. I think the title "If Pain Mends My Mind" sounds fairly straight forward at first, but it is totally ambiguous. That is, on one hand if you suffer you'll be better for it, or on the other hand it may pay homage to self mutilation, I.E. cut yourself up a bit and you'll feel all the better for it. Or it could even mean if you do what you're told you won't get hurt yet you'll be going against your convictions...but if you do decide to suffer the pain at least you're following what is on your mind.. A bit like you'd "rather die on your feet than live on your knees". It's all a bit confusing really.
Why did D.S. break up? I really love you guys, and as obscure as you were there are a few other thrashers 'round the globe who found you killer enough to bootleg the first EP and select trax from "51st State." Do people still come up to you and give you "props" to D.S.'s legend, and how do you feel about the boots (they're very well done, though the "Needle Park" one was produced from a shady label called Sludge)? I know reformation plans are absolutely out of the question, but ya seriously touched enough people that much mate!
The last official line up was complete crap. The line up consisted of Jim (great drummer), John, Peter, myself and another guy who was a tanker who part owned Dreamtime/Funnel Web. He had absolutely nothing to do with what we were trying to do, which was to play good fast hardcore music. A total straight arse. If this line up played now he'd be trying to get us to be like Good Charlottee or Blink182 or some other crag The point was that the sound became really formulized merely by this guy playing and directing the sound because he part owned the label. I re-joined for about 2 months. We played one Melbourne gig then toured Adelaide. It was really fucked. Peter arrived the day before and started raking up a bar tab (would you believe the arseholes at Dreamtime convinced Peter to register D.S. as a business...this is where it was heading) thus everything was "charged" to the band. Anyhow, we headed over in a commuter bus by a Hell's Angel called Rasputan whom we paid in illegal substances. Apart from the shows being crap a guy from Adelaide asked for the keys to get his wallet from the bus. We thought he meant on the bus, but he actually drove about 10 miles pissed out of his brain to collect it from his house. He crashed it into a Jaguar car and together with a bar tab that wouldn't get paid the arseholes declared Death Sentence (as a business) bankrupt. Thus D.S. disbanded. I left before this event happened, not to play hardcore again until seven years later. I've no problem at all with bootlegs, someitmes its the only way you can get hold of the music. Now and then people bring up Death Sentence but not a great deal to me as I live in Adelaide which I have done for the last 9 years and all the D.S. people live in Melbourne. I have not lived in Melbourne for 13 years. However, I will be moving back to Melbourne at the end of this year (2003) which will be kinda strange but almost like a home coming. Reformation? I have not seen Peter since 1991, but Sean has kindly supplied me with his e-mail to contact him. Id be interested in what he is up to. I'd love to do a reunion show with Davo, Paul and Peter, who knows?
The last official line up was complete crap. The line up consisted of Jim (great drummer), John, Peter, myself and another guy who was a tanker who part owned Dreamtime/Funnel Web. He had absolutely nothing to do with what we were trying to do, which was to play good fast hardcore music. A total straight arse. If this line up played now he'd be trying to get us to be like Good Charlottee or Blink182 or some other crag The point was that the sound became really formulized merely by this guy playing and directing the sound because he part owned the label. I re-joined for about 2 months. We played one Melbourne gig then toured Adelaide. It was really fucked. Peter arrived the day before and started raking up a bar tab (would you believe the arseholes at Dreamtime convinced Peter to register D.S. as a business...this is where it was heading) thus everything was "charged" to the band. Anyhow, we headed over in a commuter bus by a Hell's Angel called Rasputan whom we paid in illegal substances. Apart from the shows being crap a guy from Adelaide asked for the keys to get his wallet from the bus. We thought he meant on the bus, but he actually drove about 10 miles pissed out of his brain to collect it from his house. He crashed it into a Jaguar car and together with a bar tab that wouldn't get paid the arseholes declared Death Sentence (as a business) bankrupt. Thus D.S. disbanded. I left before this event happened, not to play hardcore again until seven years later. I've no problem at all with bootlegs, someitmes its the only way you can get hold of the music. Now and then people bring up Death Sentence but not a great deal to me as I live in Adelaide which I have done for the last 9 years and all the D.S. people live in Melbourne. I have not lived in Melbourne for 13 years. However, I will be moving back to Melbourne at the end of this year (2003) which will be kinda strange but almost like a home coming. Reformation? I have not seen Peter since 1991, but Sean has kindly supplied me with his e-mail to contact him. Id be interested in what he is up to. I'd love to do a reunion show with Davo, Paul and Peter, who knows?
D.S toured the states???!!! That's wot it sez in the EP...how was the Yank reaction to the band and was there anybody notable that ya played with?!
DS did not tour the states. We were going to do a tour with Adrenalin amongst other's, but Peter and Con had a big falling out and line up 1 ended. The reason it is mentioned on the EP is because by the time it came out we thought we'd be in the US.
Please describe what you've been keeping yourself busy with since the end of D.S. (kids? cthulhu? public service? model kits?) and please give us a little info on your involvement with the recent Gacy's Place and your new "kinda fucked" band (more lawsuits eh?)! Are you in contact with any of the old D.S. members? It seems from our short contact that you've gravitated towards harsher forms of hardcore (I.E. keeping all your Fear Of God records but selling off Anti Cimex), so as a quick note, when grindcore made it's first waves what did you think of it (since you'd been breaking velocity barriers for years prior to that genre).
Since D.S. I've gotten educated, started working (which I don't want to do anymore), worked in the Northern Territory for a while, etc. etc. and have a 10 month old son. Also lived in Warrnambool for awhile and played in several hands (mainly Loudmouth and Slugfelcher). Gacy's Place were the most fun band I've ever played. We've had so many funny experiences that I'd need to separate interview to cover them all, it's a band that never had any real malice between members. We even had a farewell gig which included a get up on stage and do the foulest thing possible to win a prize. That was in 1999. Dick, the lead singer, is the total showman, manic, craziest, funniest performer I've ever had the pleasure of doing shows with. He's also my best drinking buddy and a total gentleman, He has a Z-Grade movie company called Cheesy Knob Productions and makes crazy short films. He has also run several short film Z-Grade film festivals, from coming out dressed naked with a 2 foot piece of kabana taped to his cock to blowing up a PA after chain sawing in half a giant effigy of Santa stuffed with offal and blood and shorting out the foldback, he does it all. Anyhow we now have a new band called the Kamikazes that plays dementedcore. I've no contact with old D.S. members and no idea how they are. Hopefully I'll catch up when I relocate to Melbourne. I'm not sure what I thought when I first heard grind core. I first heard Napalm Death on a shitty tape deck and thought they were pretty awesome, all those blast beats. However, I think the first Carcass album is what really blew me away. I only glimpsed at the cover and thought it was just pictures of vegetables, not bodies. I think what we were doing was a lot different to grindcore though.
I have a very young friend who happens to be named "Ryan" (really!). He's enamored with the fact that guys "our age" are still active in varying degrees in our scene (hey Gary, bet my wheelchair can outrace yours!). As a personal favor, could you publically lend any advice here for how he and others his age can persevere in "keeping it real 'till the grave"?
Please don't take the points below as gospel, god know's I've fucked up a lot in my life. Okay Ryan hear goes: DON'T TAKE HEROIN, keep asking questions, don't model you life on your parents (no matter how cool or uncool they may be), play an instrument and keep playing it, if you don't like your job leave immediately, if you don't like your town leave immediately, if you don't like your girlfriend leave immediately. If you have depression or anxiety see a doctor (I mean this truly) because you don't have to feel like that. Get a pet but treat it as an equal for life, respect those of the opposite sex, make sure you have a good shit in the morning (and don't eat until you do) I really mean this, it makes your day go right and you'll avoid bowel cancer. DON'T TAKE HEROIN. Get interested in politics and talk about it with your friends, it's good to see where people are coming from. Don't sell your records, they are your historical documents. As you get older stay interested in things you liked when you were younger even if it doesn't seem right amongst your peers, don't take shit from no one no matter how much it hurts (except if they have a gun). DON'T TAKE HEROIN. Finally, if you have to believe in a religion or theistic deity, believe in yourself first.
Well Gary, I could ask you 16,000 more questions, but I think we've covered all the basics for those not in the know. I'd very much like to thank you for all your time doing this interview, and especially your wondrous legacy! This is one thrasher who will certainly NEVER forget Death Sentence! Leave all shout-outs and hails here for those who deserve it, and last minute answers to questions I never asked. Take greatest care pal and expound further on whatever you wish! LONG LIVE DEATH SENTENCE!!!
It's an absolute pleasure doing the interview Sean. It was a good mental exercise to purge those old memories.
